Ardent Enthusiast

You’ve said that your musical inspirations include Elvis and John Lennon and Queen, but what have you been listening to lately? Those people are listed on my website, and the designers wouldn’t let me name more than three, but actually, there are too many influences to cite. I’ve been influenced by everybody. Those people for sure, but then there are also groups like the Smiths, and Echo and the Bunnymen, and Stevie Wonder, and lots of different stuff. Lately I’ve been listening a lot to the new LaReed record, because I really love his guitar sound and what he does with lyrics. He’s sort of a modern poet. There are a few things on it that aren’t for kids. I really like the new Shelby Lynn record. She just won the Grammy for New Artist of the Year. I love the sounds of the record and the sound of her voice. I like a lot of the core progression. I thought it was really unique. I gravitate toward more unique artists rather than those that are in the mainstream. I’m listening in a lot to the new King Crimson record, Reconstruction of Light.

When it comes to Christian records, the one album I picked up last year that I really liked was Earthsuit. I enjoy Luna Halo a little bit too, there are some friends of mine in that group. I’m really looking forward to Blur’s new record. I just bought their greatest hits, and I’m really digging on what they do. They kind of de-bug the Beatles in an interesting way.

Let’s open up my CD player and see what’s in there right now. Some of them might be my wife’s, but this should definitely answer the question about what I’m listening to. There’s Morrisey; MTV—The First 1000 Years, it’s a new wave CD; a friend of mine from Nashville named John Painter made a record called Head Mint, it’s really great. Believe it or not, I have intermission: the greatest hits in here. That’s what’s in my CD player right now.

What about on your bookshelf? What have you been reading lately? I just finished this crime thriller called, A Darkness More Than Night. The Message is my favorite version of the Bible; it’s on the side of my bed. I’m a fan of fantasy and sci-fi, and I just finished a book called House of Leaves, which was really intense, really amazing. It was really different. It’s a story of a family who owns this old house, and they find a hidden hallway, which continues to get larger and larger throughout the book. The author is Mark Danielewski. It’s his first novel. I’m also reading a book on William Blake right now. I’m a big fan of his art and poetry. I got the new Brendan Manning book, but I haven’t started it yet. I usually read two or three books at a time.

Let’s talk about the new album. The title’s really interesting: Stereotype Be. What does it mean? I had three or four working titles. Originally I was going to call it The London Cowboy, because I have a work of poetry coming out called The London Cowboy Chronicles. I thought it would be cool to tie them together. But after writing the album, one song on it, called "Be," became the cornerstone song on the record as far as the ideology behind it. It’s a song about self-realization. There are several songs on the album that are debunking the myths of fashion and the record industry. The whole of the record kind of took on the theme that it’s okay to be yourself, and you don’t have to listen to other people to learn how to think or act or be. Don’t read Vogue to find out what you should look like this summer. That’s the premise of the album. And with Stereotype Be, I was trying to say that although we’re all stereotyped at some point in our lives, it would be great if we could be stereotyped by who we are supposed to be under God’s design rather than by who people think we are. When we realize what we’re capable of, that’s when life gets really interesting. It’s kind of a misfit record, too, because stylistically, I’ve never really fit in.

How did the album come about? I had a few songs lying around that I had written on a keyboard. I always have tons of lyrics that I want to work into songs. There was one song that I’d thought about pitching to dc talk. All of these songs came after the Supernatural tour. A lot of them started with me playing the piano and coming up with ideas. I wrote all of them myself or a co-writer. Adrian [Belew, the album’s co-producer along with Kmax] worked with me on the spoken word track on the record. He wrote the music for that. It was a collective effort. Four songs we produced together, three I produced myself, and he produced six. With the songs he produced, I just turned it over to him and said, "Go for it."

Do you play any instruments on the album? Yes, I play piano, and I play a synthesizer called the MS2000 on just about every track. I played the kick drum on one song.

You play guitar as well, don’t you? Well, I guess I’ll expose the myth about my guitar playing. The truth is that I do play a few chords and sometimes I’ll get initial ideas for writing on a guitar, but I’m not a good enough guitar player to lay down tracks. I actually did play the guitar on a demo that I pitched to Virgin for the record, but it didn’t make the cut. I guess that’s why. [laughter].

So the keyboard is your instrument of choice. Yeah, I’ve played the piano for years. I used to have a piano in my house, and now I’m dying to get one again. It’s great to be able to come downstairs at two in the morning when my wife’s out of town and play. She wouldn’t let me do that when she’s in town [laughter].

You talk a lot about being real. You and dc talk have dealt with tremendous media pressure over the last decade or so, yet you’ve managed to maintain very clear identities. What advice would you give to young musicians who are struggling with staying true to themselves as their exposure increases? The base of everything I do is maintaining a walk with God, and staying true to who I am as His creation. If you don’t have a relationship with someone who sharpens you, it’s difficult to stay in reality. The most important thing for me is to keep in touch with the reality of who I am. I get that through my relationship with God, and with my wife and other friends who bring me down to earth. Without that, I think it’s difficult to have a strong sense of self.

Being a musician comes very naturally to me. I grew up interested in music and singing from such a young age, it’s always been a part of who I am. But developing as a musician has taken a lot of years of hard work and commitment. I’ve tried to become the best I can without being who others expected I should be, which goes along with the title of the record. The fact that I’ve pushed the envelope and I’m not in a box has brought some attacks from people who have started rumors about me and say things that are completely off base. I don’t know why that happens, except that maybe people get bored and would rather single out the person that they don’t understand.

As one of the forerunners of the industry, dc talk has had to endure a lot of "friendly fire" that hasn’t been all that friendly. And you seem to have been targeted the most. How are you able to handle that? I’ve been targeted a lot, but a lot of misfits have been able to identify with me, and find me somewhat accessible. I count it a compliment when people fire shots at me. I don’t live by man’s laws, but by my own sense of right and wrong as I read the Word and seek His truth. Most of the time I ignore stuff that is hearsay, but when people attack my character, I get pretty involved. When someone starts a rumor out of ignorance or jealousy, it can become very damaging.

I think because I’ve opened myself up to people outside the Christian world, I’ve opened myself up to more attacks. I think outside the Christian industry. Sometimes non-Christians take pot shots at Christians, and that’s always been the way it is.

You’re a songwriter, author, musician, and stage actor, and now you’re turning to the big screen. Tell us about the upcoming movie, Soupernatural. You make it sound so impressive [laughter]. We have yet to see how successful I am at this, to be honest. I came into movies relatively low-key by doing an independent film. I tried out for The Lord of the Rings, and they really liked my reel, but they ended up casting big-name actors. I’m a huge fan of Tolkien, so I decided to go to London and audition. That’s what started the ball rolling, because from that audition tape I was offered two movies that I turned down because of various reasons. The third film I was offered made a lot of sense to me. The script hits on a lot of things that I can really relate to. It’s about what local media would do if there were sightings of Jesus back on earth. It’s an interesting drama on Christians in society. It’s slated to hit at the end of 2002. I’ve only filmed enough for a trailer at this point.

Do you have an acting background? Yeah, I do. I started out in the theatre in high school and college. In college I played Joseph in Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. For me, film has been easier than theatre. I’ve got to be honest with you, I think film is really great, but my first joy in life is still performing music. There’s nothing that compares to getting in front of people and performing your own songs.

All these doors have been opened to you, through your writing, film, your solo album, and with dc talk. Where do you see yourself headed in the future? Will you be pursuing all of these things? I am going to pursue all of them. I used to be the kind of guy that would always start things, but never finish them. And I’ve learned that finishing something is often more fun than starting it. That’s one of the things I’ve really learned with this solo project. I’m also interested in fashion design, and I’ve been thinking about doing something in that industry. All of my heroes have been people who are pretty well-rounded. But with that, I want to be really good at a few things rather than mediocre and a lot of things. If I’m going to be in a movie, I want my performance to be excellent. If not, I’d rather just stop. It’s the same way with my poetry.

Well, I must ask the question on everyone’s mind: what’s the next step for dc talk? Realistically, I think we’ll be back in the studio together by the end of next year. Since all of us are doing our own albums and will be traveling them, we need to exhaust that before we think about another record. And after having the time off to do this solo album and to be able to perform my own music, I’m looking forward to getting back in the studio with Toby and Mike, and I think it’s mutual.

We’re touring together in the summer, and we may be touring together in the fall. dc talk is not finished. In fact, I think our best work is in front of us, because we’ve had this chance to really find out who we are as separate individuals in one group. And when all of us come back together, hopefully we’ll bring new audiences with us. That’s my goal: to capture another audience with the solo record, and bring them back to dc talk with me. God willing, that will happen, and I hope the same for Mike and Toby.

What are you listening to right now? Cold Play, every day. It’s an English band, of course. The English have beat us again in the area of inspirational and creative Rock and Roll. It sparks a deep chord in me. I can’t even express how it makes me feel. So many musicians try to do that "never been done before" kind of thing. Parts of this record sound like other singers, but the way they did it, they made it their own.

What are you reading? I was talking to my drummer about that recently, because he’s such a reader. I should read more books, because I know it would help my writing. The last book I read was a little one called The Prayer of Jabez. I thought it was very inspiring. Jabez prays a prayer in the middle of Chronicles. Here they are, going through the genealogies, and there’s this prayer. He says, "Oh, that you would enlarge my territory." We automatically think that he’s asking for more money or land, but he was just asking for supernatural favor, and more opportunity to preach about God. The other part of his prayer was that he wouldn’t cause God pain. That book and Roaring Lambs are definitely influential in the Tait Band right now.

Tell me about the Tait Band. I met Chad Chapin, who’s the drummer and my roommate, four-and-a-half years ago in Nashville. He had been living in Bend, Oregon and working at a lumber mill. He and his brother, Lonnie, felt like they needed to get out of Dodge. So they came to town to make it work in music. They played in a bunch of different bands, but nothing really happened. So Chad and I started hanging out, writing songs, not thinking that anything would ever come of it. One summer we put together a little cover band called Curious George. We did some Pearl Jam and stuff like that. After that I met Chad’s brother Lonnie, who plays the bass. I met Pete Stewart from Seattle while he was in another band called Grammatrain. It was the perfect marriage in the sense that we all were looking for something different. I wanted to be a Rock and Roll lead singer even as a kid. One thing lead to another, and we started writing songs, and got into the studio. Pete and I co-produced the entire record, and it has been unbelievable. I’m as excited as a sixteen-year-old kid who just walked out of his parent’s house with a record deal. I know a lot of people think that this is just a side project, because when a lot of bands take a break they put together solo records with the songs they’ve had lying around. This was not that at all. This was two years of intense work. I’ll always be involved in dc talk, but this is the future for me. I want that known.

How does the writing process work for you individually and as a band? A lot of times I’ll have an idea for a theme, and we’ll craft a song around that. Melodies might come next, and then lyrics might come next. Or Pete will say a certain lyric to me that will give me an idea for a title, and then I’ll write a song lyrically based on that. Our first single is called "All You Got." Chad Chapin, my roommate, had a guitar bed for the whole song, but had no melodies. He started playing it for me, and at the same time that I could hear the melody in my head, we started working on lyrics. Pete Stewart brought me the song "Alibi," which is the first cut on our record. It was pretty much done, but we made a few changes. We try to keep it all in house, although there are a few outside writers, but they're all personal friends of mine.

How long have you been writing? Seriously, for the last six or seven years.

Tell me about the album. Pete Stewart and I produced it. The songs are very real to life, vulnerable songs. I found when we were finishing choosing songs that there weren’t very many "yay, Jesus" songs on the album. In other words, they weren’t about Christians singing to other Christians about the wonderful things God has done for us. We know that, and we say it quite a bit, and there’s a time for that. But I found myself writing songs that were more like psalms. One is about a person who’s crying out, saying "I have pain in my life. Life sucks for me. I’m in a living hell. You go to church on Sunday, have your family around you, go to lunch afterwards, that’s great. You’re enveloped by your Christian world, but I hurt." The chorus goes, "You talk about Jesus, how He set you free. You talk about a Savior, how He died for me. I don’t understand what you’re talking about. All I see is pain when I look around." It’s going to be fresh, but I don’t know if Christians are ready for that, because we like resolve in our marketplace, you know what I mean? We don’t want to hear that people don’t understand what we’re talking about. We’ve created our little world with radio stations, TV stations, records, books, magazines, and we’re shutting people out that we should be letting in. This record was written almost as an apology to those people, saying "Hey guys, I’m sorry. I screwed up. My head’s been in my own little saved, sanctified, Christianese world, not noticing that you’re crying out for help."

Bob Reiner, in Roaring Lambs, said to "get in where you fit in." Be a part of culture where you are. You don’t have to pull out a giant-print Bible when your client comes into your office, just be who you are. Find out what God is doing and get involved.

Tait Band recently headlined an ERACE event. Can you tell me a little bit about the organization? Toby, Kevin, our manager Dan Pitts and I co-founded it. ERACE stands for Eliminating Racism And Creating Equality. Our first ERACE appearance was in Grand Rapids, Michigan at Cornerstone University. We had speakers, other musicians including Grits, DJ Maj, Sammy Ward. Michael Emerson, the author of Divided by Faith spoke. The events are meant to raise people’s awareness about racism, and that it still goes on today. I find a lot of apathy on one hand and non-possession on the other. A lot of my white friends will say, "We didn’t do it." And I say, "Yeah, but you know what? You still benefit from the system."

We have a ton of materials and literature to help educate people and encourage them to leave their comfort zones so that racism can be eradicated.

There have been rumblings about a dc talk tour this fall. With the three solo albums, how would that be handled? It’ll be a three ring circus, with each of us doing a thirty or forty-five minute solo set, then coming together at the end. Tait will be touring extensively as well, straight through next summer. The album, called "Empty," comes out July 3rd.

As one of the band at the forefront of the industry, dc talk’s relationships with one another have been under constant scrutiny for years. How are you able to handle that? When you’re at the front of the parade, you’re outfit is going to be seen, there’s no two ways about it. It’s just real life. There are times when we want to kill each other. There are times when I think I can’t stand Kevin and that Toby is an idiot. And other times I say, "Thank you God, for the genius that Toby is and the sweet heart of Kevin that I saw today." It’s literally an up and down ride. It’s like a family; we’re very much like brothers, who are always working on getting along.

The criticism and rubbing that we’ve gotten from others has made us a better band. I think the rubbing has kept us around for a decade. We’re all very strong willed individuals. Many of the people who are talking about us today are the same people who started bands themselves years ago, but never made it. It takes a lot of hard, hard work to stick it out, and to stay together. It isn’t easy. After a thousand shows, a thousand photos shoots, a thousand autograph sessions—it’ll wear you out.

What are you listening to right now? I listen to a lot of things. A lot of times I’m listening to a Gotee artist, critiquing and working through their records. A lot of my music listening pleasure is tied up in what I do at Gotee, as well as with my own stuff and dctalk stuff, and all that. As far as what I enjoy, I really enjoy a wide variety, from Beck to U2 to Destiny’s child. I love music. I definitely love hip-hop, the mentality of it and where it comes from. I grew up with it.

What are you reading right now? I’m reading a couple of books, one called The Calvary Road, which is really impacting my life right now. I’m also reading A Painted House, which is the new John Grisham. It’s light fiction, and when I read it I can put things down, put my thoughts aside. I’m always working and writing music, and it’s nice to escape into a novel.

Tell us about your writing process. For me it starts with a phrase or a melody or a groove, and it grows from there. I would call myself a pop musician, I am by no means a hip-hop purist. My music is pop-infused hip-hop. Typically when I’m writing I start with a melody. Rarely does it start with a guitar like rock songs, but it more often starts with a beat, or a beat and a chant. I build a song in sections: verse sections, chorus sections and bridges. Whereas a lot of times hip-hop musicians stay on the same chords, but since I grew up writing pop music, so it’s not like I’m going to lock into a groove and stay on the same chords. I’m going to try to take it different places with something besides just the melody.

Usually I write on a keyboard, but a lot of times I’m writing with people. I’m mostly a lyricist and a melody writer and a producer. I usually write with a programmer/keyboardist or a guitar player.

Tell us about the new album. Three cuts are done, and several more are close to being done. I wrote down last night where we’re at with everything. I have thirty songs I’m trying to take to a certain point before choosing which ones will go on the record. I try to get them to that point so I can ask, "Does this flow within the body of this record? Does it represent who I am and what I’m feeling right now? Is it true to life? Is it what I feel called to share with people through my record?" And from there I start making decisions about what to include. There are a couple of songs that I need to develop a little further before I can decide. I try to get them about 25 percent developed, and then say, "I’m going to jump on this and produce it," or "that’s going to remain in demo stage for awhile."

I like to cut fourteen songs, and put about twelve on the record. It’s all over the place stylistically. There are some R&B hip-hop influenced songs, and there are some songs that are more guitar influenced. And then there are some songs that fall in the middle, and are organic, earthy hip-hop. But to call my record hip-hop would probably be a mistake, because it’s definitely not purist hip-hop. It’s taking elements of hip-hop and bringing them to pop music.

What are the themes of the album? Lyrically, the album is about anything from how my faith plays a role in my daily life to observing society to my personal struggles. It moves into the things I love: athletics, hip-hop, my son. Some of the songs are just a good time. I think that’s important, and I think oftentimes, especially in Christian music, we’re missing that. So many times albums are so theme-driven that we forget that we can just enjoy music because it’s a gift that God has given us.

I think "Somebody’s Watching Me" kind of has that feel to it. It’s not really theme heavy, it’s just about how God’s got my back all the time.

That song struck me as having a double meaning, because along with the idea that God’s always watching you, dctalk and you personally are closely watched by the fans and the media. Many people rather innocently look at where you’re at and think, "That’s got to be great," but I can imagine that sometimes the pressure is enormous. There can be a lot of pressure, and there are days that I long to be that fresh new artist again, when everything is new and I’m an unproven entity, with no one having any expectations for what I’m about to do. It’s basically having a fresh canvas. Where I’m at, both myself and others put me in a box. I find myself asking, "Would dctalk do a song like that?" As if dctalk is a person. The box isn’t real, but it’s a state of mind. I think people would be open to us doing a whole new thing, but we get trapped by our own history.

With the solo album, were you able to escape that? That’s exactly what the solo projects did for each of us. It gave us the freedom to try something new. There were still some expectations, obviously, but I think although people might be imagining what each one’s going to sound like, none of us felt put in a box. There’s an open-mindedness and free-spiritedness that we haven’t had with dctalk.

I do think that with dctalk, we’ve always felt the ability and the freedom to evolve, so there’s a balance to all of that. It’s hard. I read a magazine article comparing the three of us last night that went beyond talking about our different musical styles and talked about us personally. It basically said, "This guy’s that way and that guy’s that way and that means trouble." I understand why they would go there, but you have to be careful how you paint someone, because there’s a lot more to people than what’s obvious in the first take.

A lot of people want to think of me as the conservative one within dctalk, and I’m thinking, "I haven’t seen too many conservative people jumping off fifteen foot speaker stacks lately." But they want to call me that because they see Kevin as more of a rebel. And they say, "If he’s a rebel, there’s got to be a conservative one." People need their beliefs to cling to. I understand where people are coming from, and there’s some truth in those things, but people really miss out, because there is so much more to each of us. Kevin is much more than a rebel. He’s a special person with great thoughts and some very logical things that he brings to our table. And I might be more poetic than one might deem me. Just because I have a business mind doesn’t mean I can’t be poetic or melodic.

We want everyone to be able to express themselves in dctalk. We want to take advantage of the fact that we’re all three outspoken, that we all have different styles of creative expression. Those are strengths. They might pull us apart at times, but ultimately they pull us together.

I think part of the reason that we haven’t felt bound to a particular sound is because the vocal ability that each of us has is so different. The arsenal of styles at our fingertips is very large. I say that in humility, knowing that I feel free to produce a song that is straight Rock & Roll, or Euro-pop, or hip-hop based because of the different gifts, skills and desires that each of us has. At any moment, any one of us can take the lead. There’s such a freedom in that. We’ve always felt that we don’t have to rely on the past success or fear the past failures. When someone puts pressure on us to do another Jesus Freak, for example, we can say, "No we don’t. We need to be true to the artistic passion in our hearts." Going into the studio, we’ve never felt like we have to follow-up on the last album. We’ve been blessed with the confidence to expand our horizons with every record, and to adventure creatively, and to not rely on any formula.

If it were just me, I would definitely be relying on a more one-dimensional vocal talent. Whereas with Michael and Kevin and me, the creative opportunities are endless. It’s a blessing. Michael and Kevin are such talented guys that I feel free to go and do and pursue and dive.

How do you balance the creative and business sides of your life? For about a year after the Supernatural tour I was at Gotee Records every day, execing records, picking out songs for artists, pillaging through all their demos and pieces of songs, that sort of thing. And all of a sudden I looked up and I was way behind on my solo project because of what I’d been doing there. It took me several months to get out of that mode, although Toby doesn’t have to be standing there every day. We have excellent, excellent people who work hard and are part of the family at Gotee. I feel secure about leaving, but it’s hard when you’ve been that involved. Now I only go in about twice a week, and the rest of the time I’m in the studio. I’ll take a peek and what they’re doing over there and think, "Man, I could really be digging in there." But I need to be separate from that right now. It does stifle the creative flow when you’re writing a record. Right now I’m feeling a little distant from Gotee, and that’s hard. But it’s what I need to do right now. The people at Gotee are great. They respect what I’m trying to do here. With dctalk, we’ve been blessed so that we don’t have to work 365 days out of the year. We can talk six months and say, "Everybody go do what you want to do." And Tait will write songs for six months, and Kevin will put out a book of poetry, and I’ll work at Gotee. Because of that, I have a family of people that I love. There’s a community of artists and people who promote art that I have around me. Five out of seven nights a week, two or three of those people are at my house having dinner. It’s a great feeling. We work together, we play together.

We are so blessed to be in the position we’re in. In an era when boy-bands and sixteen-year-old girl singers are in, to think that we’re still getting magazine covers is amazing. When I realize that we’re still culturally relevant, and that people still want to listen to our music and that God is still using us, I get so blessed.