You could say it was only "Supernatural," but then you’d be missing a great deal more.

When dc Talk’s first album a self-titled, hip-hop-laced composition of "decent Christian talk" debuted in 1989, there was little if anything like it on the scene. So it is not surprising that the 1995 release "Jesus Freak" would push the envelope a bit further toward rock ’n’ roll, and "Supernatural" would nearly rip the glue.

With the October 1998 release of "Supernatural," there was an otherworldly convergence: dc Talk’s latest opened on the Billboard 200 charts at No. 4, positioned between a new release from KISS, "Psycho Circus," and Marilyn Manson’s "Mechanical Animals."

Ten years before, who would have guessed that dc Talk would eventually produce a rapless record that would debut among the top five pop releases?

In a recent telephone interview from Phoenix, Ariz., where the band was preparing for a show at American West Arena, dc Talk’s Kevin Max said the evolution of rock ’n’ roll in the Contemporary Christian Music (CCM) industry has been an interesting phenomenon over the past decade.

"Before we really did ‘Jesus Freak,’ there was kind of a lot of titling and a lot of sectoring going on within the rock ’n’ roll industry in Christian music," he said, noting there were only a few "pioneering" bands such as the 77s and White Cross. Alas, said the 31-year-old Max, "they weren’t selling a lot of records."

At that time, he says, "Stryper was probably the only (CCM) group that ever sold any amount of rock ’n’ roll records "

"I’m not saying that it was because of us, but I think after ‘Jesus Freak’ a whole floodgate full of modern rock groups just all of sudden appeared and started selling records," he said. More than anything else, he said, "I think it’s a timing thing. I think the church started realizing that there was a place for rock ’n’ and Christianity to go hand in hand. I think people started opening up to the possibilities ..."

Still, Max says, dc Talk is not a true rock band. "We’re a hybrid. We’re not a rock ’n’ roll band; I wouldn’t consider us anything but pop." But there are "a ton of modern rock groups in Christian music that are kind of pushing the envelope a little bit and I like that."

And pushing the envelope may be just what CCM needs.

Musician Charlie Peacock, whose CCM discography dates to 1984, has penned "At the Crossroads," a book in which he says the industry and its musicians are suffering from an identity crisis. In an interview with syndicated columnist Terry Mattingly, Peacock says artists sometimes sign contracts to produce "a kind of Christianized pop-rock music a music which changes with the pop music of the surrounding culture," a music which fails to consider the reality of life and, in effect, preaches only to choir.

Music for ‘the masses’

Max says dc Talk is not only interested in the choir, but produces music for "the masses."

"First of all, I’d like to say that I appreciate Charlie Peacock writing that book, because I think that people need to see behind the scenes. And what better person to bring it to the public than somebody who’s actually been involved in it," Max said.

"But I think that dc Talk’s goal from Day 1 has been to take music to the masses and to continue to bring our music to people that would not necessarily want to be a part of the Christian faith. We write music that Christians can align behind certainly, some of them even sound like anthems but in a way we’re writing these songs so that people out there that don’t believe in Christianity would understand where we’re coming from. "

"Just about every song on this record ("Supernatural"), whether you’re Christian, you’re Buddhist, you’re Muslim, or whatever, you can relate to it in some way," he said. "We’ve never tried to ‘sing to the choir,’ because it seems like it’s too easy, it’s not a challenge. I can continue to make music for Christian people, and just tell other Christians, but as an artist it’s not fulfilling and certainly as a ministry it’s not fulfilling."

"Ministry" is a difficult word for Max, who doesn’t consider himself an evangelist. "In fact, I’m kind of shy when it comes to speaking about my faith on stage." He would rather "hang with somebody and, you know, go watch a movie" before sharing his faith with someone.

"I want a place in a person’s life before I start telling them, you know, that I believe one day when you die you might go to hell," he says. "I want to be somewhere with somebody before I say that."

‘Blind Thieves ...’

A published poet ("At the Foot of Heaven") Max is currently working on his second book, "Blind Thieves and Dumb Prophets." As a poet, he approaches words differently than his fellow songwriters.

"For me, I have a really hard time with dc Talk as a writer, because as a poet things just come to me so much more clearly and I can put them down. But with dc Talk, I feel like I have to compromise a little bit and sacrifice what I would normally put down for the sake of a bigger audience." Max alternately calls the experience "a challenge a bummer," but also "a joy" in that as a member of the band "you have to work with other people and you have to work with other people’s ideas."

In dc Talk’s early days, Max says he pretty much stayed in the background when it came to writing music.

"Toby (McKeehan) was writing most of the lyrics because it was more hip-hop, and I wasn’t really into hip-hop. But now that it’s gone into more of a musical venture where I feel more a part of it, I’ve definitely come to the party with lyrics and I feel more a part of dc Talk now than ever because of that."

Max says his writing has been "infused in ‘Supernatural’ more than any other record and I’m really happy with that."

‘A sense of reality’

In the past 10 years, Max said his own spiritual fulfillment has been somewhat sporadic.

"Spiritually, for me, I’ve been up and down throughout the whole dc Talk career," he says. "But I think I’ve been on a gradually moving high lately because of my wife (Alayna). I think in a way she has really brought me to my senses on how to be a normal person and not have to continue to try to be a rock star off the stage. You know, she’s really brought a sense of reality to who I am."

Max and his wife live in Hillsboro Village and attend Christ Community Church in Franklin.

Before marriage, Max said he "pretty much surrounded myself with ‘yes people’ and kind of did what I wanted to do and nobody really questioned it."

"How that my pertains to my spirituality is that it really makes me see how God wants to be close to me; God wants to know me. It makes my need and my hunger for God greater because I realize I really do need God. I can’t do this on my own. I think I’m at a high point. I’m not where I want to be all the way, but I’m growing."

Hang out with Manson?

Day to day, what is it that Max gives that he considers his utmost for God’s highest?

"The thing that comes to my mind immediately is getting along with people. I’m a pretty cynical guy, I’m pretty sarcastic, I can be pretty moody at times, and I like to chalk that up to my personality, but that’s not true. It’s just, you know, I guess I’m kind of cynical.

"I have to work at putting people first and really thinking about the other person first and giving them the benefit of the doubt. And I think when I do that, I have a better day, and I’m happier, and I know that God’s happy too because in reality that’s what most of the Bible is talking about is loving other people more than yourself."

As to the "benefit of the doubt" and not "preaching to the choir," consider this: Max was asked by Time magazine what he thought about the controversial Marilyn Manson, whose autobiography is titled "Long Road Out of Hell."

"I’d love to hang out with him and discuss ’80s music," said Max.